The Most Exciting Contraption?
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Started by: ril3yril3y
On: 1256739606|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Number of posts: 21
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Summary:
User input on cool machines
The Most Exciting Contraption?
ril3yril3y 1256739606|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

On this post we are trying to gauge where the highest amount of interest is in specific contraptions? Example:

I think the XY plotter application is the most interesting usage of contraptor and would like to see more development in that direction. Or perhaps you want to see a vinyl cutter. Or a pick and place design. Contraptor robotic arm? Etc…

ril3y

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Unfold The Most Exciting Contraption? by ril3yril3y, 1256739606|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: The Most Exciting Contraption?
AlbanetcAlbanetc 1256746578|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

I think a basic subtractive fabber, i.e. mini CNC with Dremel/Proxxon type rotary tool would be a great contraption

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Unfold Re: The Most Exciting Contraption? by AlbanetcAlbanetc, 1256746578|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: The Most Exciting Contraption?
CubespawnCubespawn 1256793137|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Hi Guys,
I'm delighted to have discovered your project (and I'm a little envious of the nice layout work on your site) ;-)

I have a project also: www.cubespawn.com, but it is still in a fairly preliminary state, I see this construction kit a a perfect way to explore new ideas within my project - this is so obvious its brilliant!!

Hats off to your fine concept! This will make a huge contribution to accelerating the development of a whole spectrum of prototypes.
keep up the good work!

I also think the most exciting application will be to light manufacturing…
For me, a pallet handling system, servicing multiple machines, will be quicker and easier to develop, using your kit.
Thereby speeding up the process to automate open source component manufacturing.

James

Last edited on 1256793522|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover By Cubespawn + Show more
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Unfold Re: The Most Exciting Contraption? by CubespawnCubespawn, 1256793137|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: The Most Exciting Contraption?
ril3yril3y 1256820119|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

James,

Cool stuff at cubespawn. It looks like 80/20 stuff right? Vitaly has got some 80/20 in some of his contraptor designs. Meaning, hes bought some 80/20 and incorporated it into the contraptor framework. Tell me more about the pallet handling system. Sounds cool.

ril3y

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Unfold Re: The Most Exciting Contraption? by ril3yril3y, 1256820119|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: The Most Exciting Contraption?
CubespawnCubespawn 1256824811|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Yep! 80/20 stuff… the pallet handling and interconnect works as follows: Each "cube" is an independant unit and has a set of electrical connectors(4 large pins) and a data bus (6 smaller pins) the big pins carry up to 440 3 phase and the small ones carry EtherCAT(ethernet) so that cubes with different functions can be stacked together in any order to form a process like: pcb router —> solder screen printer —> pick and place —> heating —> cooling —> testing probe station…

Transporting between cells are pallets that the workpieces or work holders are attached to.
These are conveyed from cell to cell by linear motors in the base of each cube, on a set of tracks…
Making linear motors one of the first open source components I want to get a design together for ;-)

In the mean time I plan to build one of your kits on the CNC router/mill cell to mock up tracks, look at a placement strategy for pallet lockdowns and generally kick ideas around…

Great stuff!

James

Last edited on 1256824940|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover By Cubespawn + Show more
Unfold Re: The Most Exciting Contraption? by CubespawnCubespawn, 1256824811|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: The Most Exciting Contraption?
ril3yril3y 1256828741|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Super cool dude! I am starting some work on the Contraptor version of a robotic arm for pick and place systems. However… I am not a robotasist so we well see how it goes. I just bought about 20 different servos to try some stuff out. I also started working on a mass produced (laser cut) version of optical encoders 4054945228_4fd224fa39.jpg
to use for servo accuracy.

Perhaps we can collaborate on it.

ril3y

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Unfold Re: The Most Exciting Contraption? by ril3yril3y, 1256828741|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: The Most Exciting Contraption?
AlbanetcAlbanetc 1256841254|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Wow James,

This looks great! Contraptor was envisioned for prototyping exactly this kind of stuff - home/garage/desktop manufacturing robots. I like the modular aspect of your cubes, I think modularity is one of the keys to open source hardware being successful through being faster to go from idea to implementation, software analogy I'm thinking of is high level SDK.

Looking forward to collaborate with you

Last edited on 1256843721|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover By Albanetc + Show more
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Unfold Re: The Most Exciting Contraption? by AlbanetcAlbanetc, 1256841254|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: The Most Exciting Contraption? - calling all 山寨机
CubespawnCubespawn 1257625490|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Great to hear you like the idea, I have been away from the project for a week

I'm thinking contraptor is the first step in a bootstrapping cubespawn set! sequence like this:

Start:
Minimum Requirements: Hand drill, miter saw, drills, (other tools) parts and raw materials…

Prefered tool set: Powered Miter saw and a drill press + other stuff

build jigs for drilling aluminum angle, drill 'em
lather, rinse repeat for other basic parts

Add cubespawn frame (12 sticks of 80/20 1010 aluminum 449 mm long(17.677"), 8 corners, 24 bolts)
Build cubespawn frame, use contraptor motion, make cubespawn parts

Finish cubespawn mill

Make a CNC contraptor set

Make Linear steppers on cubespawn

Use contraptor for custom functions within your cell-set

and someday: melt down the handmade cubespawn and the handmade contraptor sets to re-use thier materials in the furnace, re-melt, and extrusion cubes… ;-)

Now you may ask: "Why not just stick with the contraptor?" and I reply: cubespawn is what you build once you've committed to a design, contraptor is how you explore that designs specifics… different, complementary FMS tools! exciting stuff! I wish the Shan Zhai Ji (山寨机) builders would now join us and advance the design…, maybe we can contact them…

Last edited on 1257777441|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover By Cubespawn + Show more
Re: The Most Exciting Contraption? - calling all 山寨机
AlbanetcAlbanetc 1257795651|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Hey James,

It's true that for the same cost, Contraptor has wider selection of components of different lengths which allows to explore a lot of different designs. I think the choice of building material really depends on what you're building. I played with several Contraptor designs in Sketchup using 80/20 instead of angle and everything fits very nicely. I used 80/20 mostly for structure and Contraptor for linear motion. One potential problem is that 80/20 is heavier than angle and depending on design/configuration, it might require more powerful steppers (which might require more powerful stepper drivers and power supply). But generally, I see a lot of advantages in having several different construction sets which can all be interfaced with each other.

On melting, one thing on my "someday maybe" list is to figure out a way to make solid aluminum objects from powder using additive fabrication + microwaving in silicon carbide, similar to this: http://home.c2i.net/metaphor/mvpage.html
The objects can then be finished with a Dremel to spec without taking a lot of time to mill.

I wonder if Shan Zhai factories use commercial pick and place equipment?

Re: The Most Exciting Contraption? - calling all 山寨机
CubespawnCubespawn 1257816623|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

I think its important to remember that:
Cubespawn is aimed at light manufacturing,
Contraptor seems aimed at prototyping.

Cubspawn Machines are dedicated to some finished design (although it will still likely undergo refinement)
Contraptor is more flexible for the purpose of finding the "right" design (or a good enough solution to commit to)

Unless of course I'm missing the mark (always possible :-) )
you may intend to build large finished machines with contraptor components and scale up to 1 1/2" or 2" or 3"angle and all the rest…
either way I see a slightly different intent in the endpoint for the two approaches, and I think they are complementary - I really didn't consider the prototyping aspect much in the cubespawn design, just interchangability, stackability and modularity.

which is why I'm so pleased to have bumped into your project, because it DOES! ;-)

I too wonder what Shan Zhai operations look like, and what machines are needed to build thier very sophisticated products on a small scale..

I have a meeting with a vacuum forming plant owner tomarrow to pitch the cubes as a labor saving trim-out line for 14 products in his plant - I am doing it for the development progress it will bring to the project - if it works out we all get the benefit of the developement - so I may drop off for a while, but will post finished designs as they happen - sorry this is getting so far off-topic - I would like to link to your site from cubespawn and state my position there: use Contraptor to explore implementation stategies, Then populate the cube with the solution.

upward and onward!
James

Re: The Most Exciting Contraption? - calling all 山寨机
AlbanetcAlbanetc 1257820863|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

I hear you, yes this is true - prototyping, bootstrapping, building makeshift robots and exploring designs are what Contraptor was intended for, so for example long term reliability was not a design goal. As you said above, the goal is to accelerate the development of a lot of things that will then accelerate the development of even more things..

When you have built something from Contraptor that you can show, please feel free to create a page in this wiki with pics/explanations of your project, we'll definitely link it in the Contraptions page and let people know about it. Also, we can link from home page to your site if you're looking to attract contributors to your project.

RE Shan Zhai operations - Google is our friend:) http://www.shanzai.com/index.php/market-mayhem/asia-analysis/270-shanzhai-factory-photo-tour

Re: The Most Exciting Contraption? - calling all 山寨机
CubespawnCubespawn 1257859386|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

That sounds like exactly the goal: we can do a little to help promote each other's sites, as we promote our own, thereby accelerating the whole idea a little faster, and I'll do as you say: post designs that I'm using Contraptor to define or support. Hopefully we'll get people from both camps using the whole toybox to concieve, design, and then build and automate thier creations.

Last edited on 1257859567|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover By Cubespawn + Show more
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Re: The Most Exciting Contraption?
Sam MaghsoodlooSam Maghsoodloo 1260915352|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

First of, Hello all! I found this project and fell in love with it instantly, nice job!. I have decided to sell my 100 gallon saltwater-reef aquarium (that i've built mostly on my own) and use the money to put together a contraptor set! My goal is to make a cnc router, and create parts for people in my other various hobbies.
If possible, though, I want to get a cutting laser (an overwhelming step at the moment) to cut balsa templates for my model airplanes, and to also etch stuff.
So my votes for most interesting machine are 1) router/mill 2) laser cutter

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Unfold Re: The Most Exciting Contraption? by Sam MaghsoodlooSam Maghsoodloo, 1260915352|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: The Most Exciting Contraption?
AlbanetcAlbanetc 1260999144|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Hey Sam, welcome!

Laser cutter sounds very interesting even if's just high power diode etching wood. See http://hacknmod.com/hack/make-300mw-burning-laser-cnc/
I wonder if combining several high power diodes with some kind of mirror system would provide sufficient power for cutting thin wood. Then laser tube and expensive optics would not be needed.

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Unfold Re: The Most Exciting Contraption? by AlbanetcAlbanetc, 1260999144|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: The Most Exciting Contraption?
Sam MaghsoodlooSam Maghsoodloo 1261005989|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Oh cool. I was thinking of removing the IR filter from a green pointer laser and trying that, but a laser already made for burning is even better. I actually haven't taken the dive into researching the availability of burning lasers, since I figured I'm make the cnc first.

Unfold Re: The Most Exciting Contraption? by Sam MaghsoodlooSam Maghsoodloo, 1261005989|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: The Most Exciting Contraption?
Sam MaghsoodlooSam Maghsoodloo 1261006326|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

I've thought about trying to combine the beam with a prism too. Then you could just get a bunch or IR laser diodes and set up something that could cut balsa.

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Unfold Re: The Most Exciting Contraption? by Sam MaghsoodlooSam Maghsoodloo, 1261006326|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: The Most Exciting Contraption?
Sam MaghsoodlooSam Maghsoodloo 1261205300|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Oh yeah, I am also curious about making a hot-wire cutting head to cut foam. Foam is great because there are so many possibilities as to what you can do once you have a foam model of your part. (including casting it in metal w/ a "lost foam" casting method).

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Unfold Re: The Most Exciting Contraption? by Sam MaghsoodlooSam Maghsoodloo, 1261205300|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: The Most Exciting Contraption?
AlbanetcAlbanetc 1261411874|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Hotwire cutter should be relatively easy to do. What are the typical speeds of moving wire through the foam?

Unfold Re: The Most Exciting Contraption? by AlbanetcAlbanetc, 1261411874|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: The Most Exciting Contraption?
Sam MaghsoodlooSam Maghsoodloo 1261512233|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

I haven't looked up the speeds, but i'm assuming you could easily use a belt drive, but the precision of a leadscrew could be important depending on what you're casting.

Unfold Re: The Most Exciting Contraption? by Sam MaghsoodlooSam Maghsoodloo, 1261512233|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: The Most Exciting Contraption?
Sam MaghsoodlooSam Maghsoodloo 1261512462|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Actually, now that I think about it, I think a router bit would be a better option for foam than a hotwire (unless you really cared about the speed). High density insulating foam seems like it would be a perfect material to mill through as long as you kept the router bit slow to avoid glazing.

Unfold Re: The Most Exciting Contraption? by Sam MaghsoodlooSam Maghsoodloo, 1261512462|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: The Most Exciting Contraption?
AlbanetcAlbanetc 1261513000|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

There are couple of scenarios for cutting stuff out of foam

- model car shape - router is better
- wing from a long/huge piece - hotwire cutter is better

With linear bearings, belt drive should be pretty accurate, but I think even 1/16 should be good enough in most cases of cutting something large from the foam?

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Unfold Re: The Most Exciting Contraption? by AlbanetcAlbanetc, 1261513000|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
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